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Sorting out the 17th C Thomas Wenbornes

Sorting out the 17th C Thomas Wenbornes

Posted: 1149332881000
Classification: Query
Edited: 1169616141000
Before I begin to document everything I have found out about the Thomases and how I have reached the conclusions I have drawn, it is important to include the details of the Wenbornes that I have found in the Wadhurst parish registers (which I have viewed in their original detail on microfil).

MAR 14 May 1611 Thomas Baldocke and Mercie Wemborne
MAR 9 Aug 1613 Jeremy Gibbins and Bridget Wenborne
BUR 19 Feb 1615 A daughter of Robt Wemborne unbaptised
BAP 9 Jun 1618 Robert sonne of Robert Wemborne (margin note - Mr Wemborne sonne Robert)
BAP 9 Apr 1620 William son of Robt Wemborne
BAP 10 Feb 1621 Thomas sonne of Robt Wemborne
BAP 8 Feb 1623 Elizabeth daughter of Robert Wemborne
BAP 17 Sep 1626 Sibill daughter of Robert Wemborne
BAP 31 Aug 1628 John sonne of Robert Wemborne
BUR 29 Nov 1630 John sonne of Robert Wemborne
BAP 9 Dec 1631 George sonne of Robert Wemborne
BUR 10 Sep 1632 Thomas Wemborne
BAP 18 Feb 1633 Laurence sonne of Robert Wemborne
BUR 5 Mar 1634 Widdow Wemborne
BUR 23 May 1637 Robert Wemborne
BAP 26 Apr 1638 Solomon sonne of John Wemborne
BUR 11 Mar 1638 Ould Mrs Wembourne
BUR 14 Oct 1639 Robert Wemborne sonne and heire to Robert Wemborne
BUR 12 May 1641 Laurence sonne of Robert Wenborne
BAP Mar 1645 Jane and Elizabeth daughters of Thomas Wemborne
BAP 26 Sep 1650 Solomon son of Thomas Wenbourne
MAR 12 Jul 1652 Richard Burgesse and Sybel Wenborn
BUR 9 Dec 1654 Thomas Wonborne
BUR 29 Dec 1654 Solomon son of Thomas Wenborne
BAP 19 Dec 1658 Thomas son of Thomas Wenburne of Cousely Wode [Wood]
BAP 22 Apr 1660 Mary daughter of Thomas Wenbourne
BUR 18 Mar 1661 Mary daughter of Thomas Wonbourne
BUR 12 Jun 1663 Thomas Wenborne
BAP 12 Jul 1663 John son of Thomas Wenborne
MAR 30 May 1664 John Wenborn and Jane Kirwin
MAR 30 May 1664 John Gyllot and Elizabeth Wenborn
BUR 27 Oct 1664 Elizabeth wife of Solomon Wenborne. Small p.
BUR 19 Nov 1664 John Wenborne. Sm. P.
BAP 26 Mar 1665 William sonne of Thomas and Mary Wenborne
BAP 11 Sep 1666 Solomon son of Solomon and Alice Wenborne
BAP 31 Oct 1667 Ann daughter of Solomon and Alice Wenborne
MAR 3 May 1668 Richard Drury and Elizabeth Wenborne
BAP 1 Dec 1669 Robert sonn of Solomon and Alice Wenborne
BAP 24 Apr 1670 Richard sonn of Thomas and Mary Wenborne
BUR 27 Jul 1671 Ann the wife of old John Wenborne
BAP 22 Nov 1671 Edward son of Solomon and Alice Wenborne
BAP 21 Jan 1671 Mercy daughter of Thomas and Mary Wenborne
BAP 7 Mar 1673 Thomas sonne of Thomas and Mary Wenborne
BAP 27 Aug 1675 John sonne of Thomas and Mary Wenborne
BUR 24 Sep 1675 Old John Wenborne
BUR 11 May 1689 Thomas sonne of Thomas and Mary Wenborne of Couslywood
MAR 15 Aug 1683 John Wiborne and Mary Bigge. Lic
BUR 2 Dec 1685 Elizabeth widow of Thomas Wenborne
MAR 25 Jul 1689 John Wenborn and Ann Waterhouse. Banns.
BAP 1 Feb 1689 Thomas son of John and Ann Wenborne. Pr.
BUR 21 Jul 1699 Mary daughter of Thomas and Katherine Wenborne
BUR 2 Jan 1700 Mary the wife of old Thomas Wenbourne. P
BUR 30 Jan 1705 Thomas Wenborne Shoemaker
BUR 8 Dec 1706 Old Thomas Wenborne. P.
BUR 26 Mar 1732 Widdow Winbourn. Poor (there are 3 copies of this entry for this date, and one lists her as "Mary Winbourn, Wid.")
BUR 14 Nov 1755 Thomas Wenban. P.
BAP 1 Dec 1774 Thomas son of Thomas and Mary Wenbourne
BAP 4 Jan 1777 John son of Thomas and Mary Wenbourn
BAP 12 Oct 1779 Mary daughter of Thomas and Mary Wenbourn
BAP 3 May 1782 James son of Thomas and Mary Wenbourn, Publican
BAP 5 Feb 1785 Gidion ye son of Thos and Mary Wenban
BAP 7 Mar 1788 Susannah daughter of Thomas and Mary Wenban, Farmer
BAP 3 Jul 1789 Frances daughter of Thos and Mary Whenham, Farmer
BAP 12 May 1793 Amy daughter of Thomas and Mary Wenban farmer
BAP 5 Nov 1795 Elizabeth daughter of Thomas and Mary Wenban, farmer, born April 22, 1795

Other snippets from the Wadhurst registers include

1634 - "The said mony was bestowed in clothes and the undernamed were clothed by it with outward garments". They included John Wemborne

There was this yeare 1637 bestowed 5th upon the poor of Mrs Susan Edwards daughter to Thomas Edwards Esquire of which five pounds there was baked out in bread one quarter five gallons the charge of it was £1 15d. the rest was bestowed upon wastcoates and given to them whose names are underwritten (includes “John Wemborne's wife”)

Re: Sorting out the 17th C Thomas Wenbornes

Posted: 1149332999000
Classification: Query
Edited: 1169616141000
Lets start with the parents of Thomas Wenborne the skinner, who were
Robert Wenborne and Elizabeth Cruttall. I think these details are important background information.

Robert and Elizabeth were married on the 26th May 1614 at St George the
Martyr, Southwark (I consulted microfilm copies of the original register
at the London Metropolitan Archives on one of my trips to England).

None of Robert and Elizabeth’s children were baptised in Southwark –
they were all baptised in Wadhurst, and from the Wadhurst parish registers (which I have viewed on microfilm) we can build up the following picture

Robert Wenborne and Elizabeth Cruttall married in Southwark in 1614. They had the following children
1. An unbaptised daughter who was buried at Wadhurst on 19 Feb 1615
2. Robert Wemborne, chr 9 Jun 1618, buried 14 Oct 1639, both at Wadhurst
3. William Wemborne, chr 9 Apr 1620 at Wadhurst
4. Thomas Wemborne, chr 10 Feb 1621 at Wadhurst
5. Elizabeth Wemborne, chr 9 Feb 1623 at Wadhurst
6. Sibill Wemborne, chr 17 Sep 1626 at Wadhurst. She married Richard Burgesse on 12 Jul 1652 at Wadhurst
7. John Wemborne, chr 31 Aug 1628, bur 29 Nov 1630, both at Wadhurst
8. George Wemborne, chr 9 Dec 1631 at Wadhurst
9. Laurence Wemborne, chr 18 Feb 1633, bur 12 May 1641, both at Wadhurst

Robert Wemborne was buried at Wadhurst on 23 May 1637. He left a will, dated 28th April 1637, where he calls himself Robert Wenbourne of Wadhurst, gent. He made his wife Elizabeth Executrix of his will, and mentions his children Robert, William, Thomas, Elizabeth, Sibella, George and Lawrence (his son John had predeceased him). He also says that he wants “my children be also brought upp & put to prentice with the p[ro]fits of the lands & p[re]misses aforesaid”.

The will of Elizabeth Wenborne of Wadhust (Robert’s widow) is dated 25 August 1642. She does request that her body be buried in the churchyard of Wadhurst before the chancel door, but I did not find the burial in the Wadhurst registers. In her will she refers to William Wenborne (“my eldest son”), Thomas Wenborne (“my second son”) and George Wenborne (“my youngest son”), along with her daughters Elizabeth and Sybill, her other sons Robert, John and Laurence having pre-deceased her. She appoints William as her sole executor.

All this should probably be fairly non-controversial.

In the next episode…. Robert’s sons are “put to prentice”

Re: Sorting out the 17th C Thomas Wenbornes

Posted: 1149818855000
Classification: Query
Edited: 1169616141000
So, what about Robert’s sons being “put to prentice”?

Remember that at the time he died he had the following living children: Robert, William, Thomas, Elizabeth, Sibella, George and Lawrence. Now, his will talks about his “children” not his “sons” being apprenticed. It certainly did happen for girls to be apprenticed, but usually that was in cases where a poor orphaned girl had an apprenticeship in “housewifery” arranged by the parish overseers. Since this family do not seem to be struggling financially, and since no apprenticeship records for his daughters have turned up so far, we will not spend any time searching for them in apprenticeship records.

The Court Minutes of the Pewterers Company show that in 1634 (which is before Robert senior died) "Robert Wenborne sonne of Robert of Wadhurst in Sussex" was apprenticed for 8 years to Thomas Wilkinson, member of the Pewterers Company of London. This Robert (the pewterer) died in 1639 and was buried in Wadhurst.

The East Sussex Records Office Additional Manuscripts, Catalogue V (reference AMS6227/50) has a conveyance dated 16 June 1659 from “William Wemborne of Southwark, stationer (eldest son of Robert Wemborne of Wadhurst, gent, deceased” where he sells land in Ticehurst that had originally belonged to his uncle George Cruttal, and which came to William via his sister Sybyl. So although I have not yet found details of William’s apprenticeship, it appears he was apprenticed as a stationer.

The Manuscripts section of the Guildhall Library has found the following information for me on the apprenticeship of Thomas from the register of apprentice bindings and freedom admissions for the Skinners’ Company.

4 Apr 1637
Thomas Wenborne sonne of Robert Wenborne of Wadhurst in the Countie of Sussex gent hath put himselfe apprentice to Nicholas Warren Citizen and Skynner of London for nine years from our Ladie last (i.e. last Lady Day, which is the 25th March)

7 Jan 1644/5
Thomas Wenborne late apprentice with Nicholas Warren having served eighte yeares and upwards of the tearme on his Indenture was this day preferred to his freedome

8 May 1668
Thomas Wenborne sonn of Thomas Wenborne C[itizen] & Skinn[er] of London was appr[enticed] to his said Father for 7 years from this day.

The will of Thomas Wenborne was written 5th February 1685 and was proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury on the 23rd March 1686. In it he describes himself as “Thomas Wenborne, Citizen and Skinner of London”, and he mentions his son Thomas Wenborne, his daughter Hester Hudson widow, his daughter Elizabeth the wife of Nicholas Bakewell ironmonger, and his daughter Marah the wife of Thomas Rowney, linen draper. He also mentions his brother William Wenborne and his friends Daniel Mercer of London and John Bourkes of Southwark and his wife Hannah Wenborne (whom he makes his executrix). No other children are mentioned.

Now, checking the registers of St George Baptisms in St George the Martyr in Southwark (where Robert Wenborne and Elizabeth Cruttall were married), I found the following baptisms
21 Sep 1656 – Hester daughter of Thomas and Jane Wonborne
27 Jul 1658 – Joane ye daughter of Thomas Wonborn
6 Sep 1661 – Elizabeth daughter of Thomas Wenborne
30 Mar 1663 – Mary daughter of Thomas Wonborne

And the following burial
10 Mar 1685/6 – Thomas Wenbourn, Skynner

On the 1st Dec 1680 a marriage license was issued by the Archbishop of Canterbury for Nicholas Bakewell, of Birmingham, co. Warw., Ironmonger, Bach, abt 26, & Mrs Elizabeth Wenborne, of St George’s, Southwark, Surrey, spinster, about 19, with consent of her father. Marriage to take place at St Mary le Bow, London.

Remember that at that time “Mrs” does not stand for Missus (i.e. a married lady), it is an abbreviation for “Mistress” and is applied to people of a higher (but not aristocratic) class.

Then on the 10th May 1681 a marriage license was granted to Thomas Rowney of Birmingham, co. Warw., Linen Draper, bach, about 26, & Mrs Marra Wenborne, of St. George’s Sourthwark, Surrey, spin, about 18, with consent of her father Thomas Wenborne, of the same, Citizen and Skinner. Marriage to take place at St Mary Le Bow, London.

Now, looking at the baptisms above, they certainly seem to match with at least 3 of Thomas’s children (I think Mary, Marah and Marra are the same person, the differences being accounted for by the varing degrees of literacy of the parish clerks concerned). Joane probably died before her father, although she was not buried at St George’s Southwark. I think Thomas must have been baptised somewhere else, probably about 1654, as boys were usually apprenticed at 14.

Another interesting point is that Hester’s mother is Jane, whereas at the time of his death Thomas’s wife was named as Hester, so he had probably married twice (even though there is no burial of Jane, and no record has been found to date of either wife).
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