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Widmann genealogy via DNA suggested

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Widmann genealogy via DNA suggested

Posted: 1245090372000
Classification: Biography
Surnames: Widmann, Widman, Weedman, Widemann
I will be undergoing DNA testing within a few months to try to establish relationship with the many Widmann family branches throughout the USA and Europe(concentrated in Wuerttemberg). The cost is now about $79 and is reliable back 48 generations.

My family line traces back to 1300s Dagersheim (Wuerttemberg) as do perhaps most Widmann lines. Below is my translation - so far - of what seems to be a reliable account of Widmann clan history published in the mid 50's by a Cologne University professor, Walter Pfeilsticker. Comments and suggestions would be welcome. My e-mail address is :
Two Doctors Named Johann Widmann
by Walther Pfeilsticker

(1st trial and incomplete translation by Robert H. Widmann)



In the preceeding 100 years, much has been written and much publicity has appeared about about both of these identically named individuals, one from Maichingen, the other from Heimsheim.

One finds onself wishing to concentrate on one or the other of their divergent professional lives and differing fates, yet this is hardly possible and one must take into account the duality of spirit and the convergence of the lives of both. The times and the professional lives of these two overshadowed each other in such an unusual way that it served to engender a unifying power and only approximately suceeded in keeping their singular fates separate and discrete.

(A very thorough examination of the lives of both by Bass appeared in the Magazine for the history of the High Rhein in 1911 and 1926.)

One must leave that which is under discussion sufficiently open so as to point out possibilities and not to exhaust the obvious as Bass has, although his discoveries are valid and valueable. Besides, the Wurttemberg historian, Theodore Schoen, has pointed out that most history right up to the present has remained largely undiscovered.

How like Bass it is, to neglect information in a differing discipline simply because it is out of his area of expertise and to make the claim that to focus attention on the information in question would involve moving over into the study of art history - a discipline that in its own area is also self-limited. Typically, the art historian, too, neglects signifigant historic information should this be, for example, in the medical history area. Thus a history of each discipline may be viewed only in isolation and, according to the purists, this is perfectly adequate for a compartiive study of personality and character.

We must put both individuals into the landscape out of which they went forth and into the clan circle into which they awakened. With allowance for the the geographical genealogy or genealogical geography that comes from such an exposition, it is unpardonable how we tread on and kick the new, timely historical discoveries that are of a differing discipline.


Walter Pfeilsticker (Part 1)

The Wuerttemberg geography seems to be a dark continent to those from outside and its area corresponds to a blank spot on the map; "yes, that is our globe and it is there for show".

Bass, the most thorough of all arbiters of the Widmann problems still adheres to the torpid 1926 study in which he describes "Moechingen not far from Sindelfingen" as a proper description of place and says that this location in the literature is "frequently misunderstood e.g. as Maichingen u.a." the foregoing occurred while under the Sudhofs patronage through the Institute for the history of Medicine in Leipzig in 1925; doctoral candidate E. Wild causes the Lesser Alps to shrink when he writes of the Maichinger Widmann, "He stems from the little Schwabian Village Mochingen in the rough Alps"!, while Maichingen lies in fruit bearing fields far removed from the Schwabian Alps.

Geography, in so far as Wuerttemberg locales figure in the Widmann family (also Moechinger and Salicetus) university matriculations (especially for Tubingen and Heidelberg), is essentially as follows: Dagersheim is in the Boeblingen District, 4.7 Km from Boeblingen, Darmsheim exactly 5.8 Km from Boeblingen and 4.5 Km from Maichingen, Maichingen itself, is similarly in the district of Boeblingen, 7 Km away, all in very near the same area and all of the same era, certainly our investigation moves within the confines of the Sindelfingen district. Only Heimsheim, Leonberg District, lies somewhat outside these bounds, being 12 Km from Maichingen.

Not a little remarkable is the downplaying of the clan that occurs as attention is drawn to university matriculation announcements coming in an almost continuous string for persons from the same locale: such as in Vienna

Mangoldus Wydmann de Tagersheim 1420;
(in Tuebingen, the Dagersheimer Blasius, June 5, 1510; George, June 18, 1524);
Mangold Widmann, the writer and Konrad, the Choir master came from Sindelfingen;
Johannes Widmann de Sindelfingen matriculated in Vienna in 2 semesters (Refs.);
were compared to Nikolaus Witman who matriculated in Heidelberg, December 20, 1451 (Ref.). Then the Heimsheimer,

Ambrosius II, matriculated Feb. 11, 1518;
Johann Feb 12, 1494,
Peter Jan. 7, 1494;
whereupon yet comes Hans Widmann, called Schefe, a citizen of Heimsheim, June 19, 1487. (perhaps the father of both the following: Mangold Widmann, the blessed, brother of the Heimsheimer physician, Johann Widmann of Freiberg, whose testament of 1530 on a Wednesday following the Holy Cross Days Inventions d.i. on May 4 is cited with his "(tween worldly sin?)" (zween weltlische sun), sadly without a trade or place name.

Further the Maichinger Johann, June 7, 1484;
Paul, Oct. 22, 1490,
Wolfgang, May 31, 1502.

Also striking is the similarity of the forenames of those from the different locales and the different spheres of the Widmanns, notably the unusual name Ambrosius; for example Ambrosius of Maichingen mat. Tuebingen 9/24, 1490, Ambrosius of Heimsheim mat. Tuebingen Feb. 11, 1518 and Ambrosius of Moeringen (Muehringen area, Ref.) mat. Tubingen 9/22 1574. All of the foregoing to this point urges the assumption that in this matter relationship connections must apply, whereupon we have proof of our two Johanns, the Maichinger and the Heimsheimer, being related.

On the genealogical side, I examine only that which is indispensable to the comprehension of the kinships, because with the Widmann Clan, we experience that which is rather unusual, therefore the birth process of the family name is all the more appealing.

In the year 1342, namely on the 9th of November, Mangolt I, the Mayor of Dagersheim, made a declaration to the Sindelfingen authorities (stift) (regarding) the hereditary fiefdom of the Widemhofs of Dagersheim (Ref. Heed Document Book, etc.). Though not documented as good as gold, nevertheless I believe this Mangolt through this unwitting act, must be recognized as the founding father of the House of Widmann, because in the tentative trunk line there follows a Hans Widmann of Dagersheim named on January 21, 1430 as father of the already married (June 8, 1433) Mangold II of Dagersheim, who may have been born in 1400. There was therefore an approximate span of 2 or 3 generations between the Widemayor Mangolt and Hans Widmann (Refs.). A son of Werner I from Dagersheim, Hans, was named as a citizen of Stuttgart on July 23, 1406. Furthermore, a Werner II, former deacon and priest to Dagersheim's spiritual community was noted on August 12th, 1454. In a printed publication are the names of the spiritual advisors, here with the meaning of executor witheld, however we find they withold in the referenced report, the purchase letter of the Village mayor, legal and holy pledges and the congregation of Dagersheim is named as of that place as a holy pledge, for Konrad Widmann, choirmaster of Sindelfingen, Andreas Kruthacker, priest of Dag., Mangold III Widmann, chaplain to Waldenbuch (died in 1469) Heinz Widmann of Mochingen, and Hainz Widmann of Dag., the same being spiritual advisor to the deceased Werner Widmann, Deacon and priest of Dag. Here, one supposes, however the voice of blood drawn from similar sources speaks clear. Further as if returning from early mass, Werner III, without surname, in Dag. on May I 1748 (Ref. Document Books of the City Of Stuttgart where several more Dag. quotes are).

One of the aforementioned Mangolds is truly a person similar to the one who in 1420 inscribed Mangold Wyedeman alias Ruefe (a Ruefe Wyedman, blissful (deceased?), from upper Esslingen was named as a child in 1363 f.f. in the document book of the City of Esslingen, Vol 2. About a Widmann seal of the Esslinger, nothing is known. In 1429 and 1446, this Mangold was named as a house owner in Stuttgart. He is in 1430 scriber to Count Ludwig I of Urach, later chancellor, died in 1460. He had together with scriber Michael Von Walddorf the service of mass in Magstadt as a beneficence in 1435. Also he owned a house in Pflugfelden, in 1452 2 manors in Kornwestheim and in 1447, a manor in Ossweil. In 1443, he sealed with a writer's symbol, namely inkpot and featherpens as did in 1497 his son, Conrad. Furthermore, in 1460 he sealed with a shield with a springing ram. It was not unusual that in respectable families that 2 or even 3 seals were in use at the same time, so for example, this was true of the Gremp, Welling and Tegen. The seal with the inkpot is an office seal and may be seen (Refs.). Regarding his wife, Adelheid (Ellin) Raemy von Nurtingen, was named as widow on September 12, 1463 and 7 children were recognized: Mangold IV, Canon of Tuebingen, entered 1477/1478, Rector of the University and Dr. Decretolium 1491, also Assessor of Court Law 1493, overseer of Marbach and Steinheim, also "Konrad Mangolt, son of Mangolt, the writer", or "Konrad Widmann, called Mangold". He became imprisoned in 1494 through Count Eberhard V , owned in 1496 a house in Pflugfielden, made his seal in 1497 as did his father with a writer's symbol, was a longtime citizen of Brackenheim fron 1461 to 1487 and died in Marbach in 1508 on the wednesday after Bartholmai. Sadly, the coat of arms was broken on his gravestone outside of the Choir of Alexander Church in Marbach.

3. Ludwig, called Mangold, was doctor and councilor in 1481, choir master of the association in Tubingen, 1493, that was grouped together with Sindlefingen. was also Court Tribunal Member in 1497 and died in 1528.

4. Margarethe, married to Berthold Bock d.Ae., village mayor in Wildberg, died 1477.

5. Adelheid, named in 1457 was freed from the requirements of feudalism in 1471 and was united with Chancellor Bernhard Schoferlin.

6. Dorthea, before 1478 married Hans Helfrich,citizen of Leonberg and died in 1483/1484. 7. Barbara, in 1457 married Jacob Walther, called Kuehorn in Stuttgart.

In the same generation as Mangold II was Konrad Widmann, d.A. from Dagersheim who entered Heidelberg in 1421/22, Churchmaster of Hofingen and Count Ludwigs chaplain in 1434, later 1454-1469 Choirmaster of Sindelfingen, Chaplain of the Foundation, 1471 (refs.) © who we were already allowed to speak of as Mangold's brother and as a son of Hans Widmann from Dagersheim.

It has become tempting to cling on to the belief that Johann Widmann could be the eighth child of Mangold Widmann and Adelheid Raemy but we must express our regret and abstain for now on an opinion for all effort until now sought vainly to discover any indication of an affiliation with the above family members. It was (the mention) of Heinz von Moechingen in the purchase letter of August 12, 1454 that (we see that) the period is correct so as to further the belief that he was the father of Johann Widmann who was born around 1440. To this, not to rumors circulated for genealogical (purposes),the time has come to agree on the Moechingen Widmann figure. I hold in low esteem the essentials of results (announced) by Baas in the Magazine for the History of the High Rhein (vols., nos.).

Johann Widmann the Maichinger, born about 1440, steps into appearance for the first time as "de Mochingen", entered the University of Heidelberg, October 1st 1459 and became Baccalaureus on July 9, 1461 and M.A. on March 19, 1463, and to be sure, "Sub Magistro Conrado Mochingen". Now his tracks are lost in the literature until they appear again in a collection of manuscripts of the Karlsruhe District Library, which comes from the Widmann Book Collection which the 17th century Cloister of St. Georgen had acquired. These St. Georgen manuscripts bear the numbers 43 © 49 and no. 55. Of these, no. 48 awoke our special interest because in it as of 1466 writing in the school of Papiensi (gymnasio papiensi) or also in (studio ticinensi) © as Ticinum, as (Pavia) was called before the time of the Lombards, (this was) written in Pavia. Thereupon came a place in Widmann's writing covering "De Pestilentia", where he on page 42, col. 2, cap. 12 mentioned his "praeceptor, Johannes Marlianus Papiensis", and that when assured attention from him, Widmann undertook the obligation of his studies before pushing on to Padua.

In this way the St Georgen document no. 45 provides information. In it is an "Antidotarium des Pavianer, later Paduan Professors Anthonio de Guanerei were included, where on page 75 the entry states: "die 17. Februarii anno 1468 scriptum padoe per Jo. W.." We understand therefore that the Maichinger began his sojourn (weilte) in Padua in 1468. But already in the same year he had again left Padua and found himself on a side trip home as an entry in document no. 48 on page 1208 shows, namely "Anno 1468 die alia post Margarethe virginis gloriose (d. i. 16. Juli)

Scriptum per Johannes Widmann in Sclavonia in Opido petoviani".

Below this city is Pettau on the Drave, today south Slovenian Ptuj, Widmann may have been to Venice, Trent, and Laibach where he may have been employed in the library of the Kloisters there. In a similar letter , no. 45 on page 34, Widmann (wrote) with a light heart though sadly without a date, "Finitum Feliciter 1469 per Joh Wid. Ulme" wherein he looked forward to his first return to his birthplace for a stopover there. Widmann should have been still (again) in Ulm in 1472. Stepping past this, he must have been in this time period in Ferrara, where he graduated as Doctor (See Sudhoff in the Archive for the History of Medicine, Vol 16, 1924, Pg. 10) In letter no. 49, he wrote on page 1 of his new honor "Iste liber est Mag(ist)ri Johannis Widmann doctoris in Medicinis". What may have caused Widmann to gravitate to Ulm in the years from 1469 © 1472 or perhaps 1474 has not been avowed. At any rate we find him at Inglostadt again, where he on March 21 is registered as "medicinae chirurgiae doctor" The annals of Inglostadt enumerate him as "Personis illustriores ex inscriptis". Soon thereafter in 1476 he stands in the service of the Markgrafen of Baden and is living presumably in Pforzheim.

But the wide ranging and knowledge hungry man stays here as healer for only a brief time because on July 12, 1477 he was named physician for the city of Basel with 24 golden Jahrsold, but without the obligation of further study at the University "unless it should please him". In summersemester 1477, Widmann enters the college in Basel (Ref.) while in the same year he makes note of a similarly named individual from Pforzheim as a bacc. art (Ref.). However already in 1478 he turns again from Basel and returns to the service of Markgrafen Christof I as physician from 1483 to 1484. The letter exchange of 1476 between Widmann, the city of Basel and the Markgrafen is published by Baas, Journal for the History of the High Rhein, 1926, pg. 466. (The original he found in the City Archive of Basel (Refs.)

This is in regard to Petrus Schott of Strassburg, whose "Lucubratiunculae" are judged to be in difficulty in Schotts letters regarding the parts about Baden, and in the parts about Tubingen and from all of this one infers that Widmann himself enjoyed high esteem and great trust from all. In the years 1481 and 1483 he provided medical expertise as a visitor in Schotts home in Strassburg. His friend addressed him in his first letter of July 21 1841 with the greeting, "Tamquam frater Charmissimus" and thanked him for the lifesaving treatment of his mother. The second letter of July 6, 1482 makes it known, that besides letters, even books were sent from Strassburg to Baden for the friend he had become so concerned about.

In the 3rd letter of May 26, 1483, it came to light that Widmann had treated Schott's sister for an illness. A 4th letter is of August 14, 1483. In the same year, on Nov. 3rd "Master Hans Widmann doctor of medicine received the city citizenship and is (yme) that vainly overheard on Monday after All Saints Day and wishes to serve the Lutzernen (people of Lutzern?). (Entry in the Strassburg Citizens Book 1, pg. 243). Under "Zur Lutzernen" may itself probably be mistaken for the lantern (Zur Laternae) at a drinking tavern in which a guild had its hangout because those who entered the service of a city must join a guild (even if one has not heard this through ones occupation). In Strassburg, for example, those who belong to the Guild for Lutzern are the grain and flour workers as well as the surgeons. Their Guild coat of arms was a golden bear with silver collar holding a lantern in stationary paws on a black background. (See Paul Martin, The Noble Sign of the City of Strassburg, 1200 © 1681, 1941). Paracelsius also belonged to this guild. In other cities, physicians belonged to other guilds so, for example, in Freiburg around 1537, the artists guild was "for giants" because doctors were treated as equals to the painters, and the evangelist, Luke, the doctor, was recognized as patron saint. (Refs.).

Widmann © Mochinger wrote, without a date, "My sirs, masters and counselors", and describes himself as a doctor in training now and then in Straszburg. He describes, in the mentioned writing, different situations, "so as to give evidence of judgement and dedication"; how one in Bamberg, Nurnberg and Wurtzburg approaches the apothecary. He also squeezes in some consultation, and (writes) as how the unlawful occupation of all sorts of quack practices (is prevalent), for example going to the barber. "As for the pregnant, it is better to be concerned about bears for at present midwives took care of the pregnant."

But soon after the flow of 3/4 of a year, namely on July 6, 1484 "Johann Widmann de Mochingen utriusque medical doctor" registered at the University of Tubingen and Peter Schott wrote on March 1, 1485 of the "ordinarie legenti" in Tubingen, sought Widmann's frequent medical advice about his own illness, and about visits to Strassburg. Also he wished together with his parents in this letter to Widmann's wife "salubrem laetemque partum". Widmann also looked forward to the joy of new fatherhood, for he was already married in Baden and had there 2 sons, namely Beatus who was born in 1479 , and Ambrosius, born in 1481 or 1482. Who however was his wife? Many sources name a Baderin named Ingelhan.Where this information comes from, I could not determine. Rather, his wife and mother of his children, Beatus and Ambrosius Mechthild Balz, was a daughter of Heinrich Balz whose ancestral house has a rooster in its coat of arms. Three letters of hers have been preserved. These are preserved at the Wurttemberg State Archive, the openings of two are displayed at the University of Tubingen. Also, through her, Widmann inherited a house in Kornwestheim, that once belonged to Henrice Schreiber. This house, however, is a different one from the one which belonged Mangold in the old days (in dem altern).

The first son, Beatus, entered Tubingen on November 19, 1489. "Wydman de Baden was in 1504 Professor of Church Law, and as in the poem by Heinrich Bebel, came forth as his father had, was then Advance Austrian Chancellor and named Tirolean Chancellor and Authority Counselor of the Austrian Government. He acquired in 1516 the castle and village of Muehringen, Kr. Horb., after which he and his descendants called themselves (Von Muhringen), and furthermore (acquired) the estates and village of Kirchentellinsfurth in 1525. He sealed with the springing ram from 1523 and likewise (did?) a "Jacob Widmann Von Muhringen on July 9, 1627. From Alberti, Coat of Arms Book Vol. 2, Pg. 1055. Higher Office Description Horb 1865, Pg. 22f; ÀG Àrttemberg Medicine Correspondence Folio 1896, Pg. 58, Zurricher Seal Collection.

At Tuebingen, Claudius Widmann von Mehringen entered on March 10, 1530 and Christoph Widmann von Moringen on Aug. 7, 1530. Beatus Widmann was married to Barbara Schad, a relative of Cardinal Matthaus Lang. He (Beatus) died in 1531(1537?) on Aug 13th. His descendants are not uninteresting, but I approach the subject if not held responsible (for error). One daughter was married to Ulrich Von Lichtenstein, another married to Wolf Leonhard Ifflingert Von Graneck, the 3rd was wife of David Beetz Von Rothenstein. A son, Wolfgang, was priest in Ravensburg from 1546 to 1550. (Note the Maichinger Wolfgang Widmann entered TÀG Àbingen May 31, 1503.) The son, Hans Jacob W was overseer at Horb (?) and his children were the following Anna Maria married Hans Vol Von Wildenau;Barbara married Andreas Ifflinger von Graneck;

Hans Christof Beetz von Rothenstein, this last purchased Kirchentellinsfurth from Duke Fredrich von Wurttemberg on March . 18th, 1594. Their son, Ambrosius was stabbed in Tubingen, son Hans Heinrich died at the siege of Maasricht, 1578. Hans Phillip was Salzburg Counselor and Guardian to Koprum and died in Lauffen in 1599, his wife's maiden name was Goldin von Lampolding.

The Maichinger's second son, entered Tubingen on Sept. 24, 1490 as "de Tuvingen" (Ref.) and received a Doctorate in Italian in 1504 just as in the foregoing little Bibel Poem, was in 1506 Ordinarius Juris, Civil Juris in Tubingen where he lived in Munz alley, just at house 11 nearby to the neighborhood of his father's property as we shall see. On Feb. 9 1509 he was named for the first time as provost. He was also court legal assessor on Oct. 23, 1510 and as "Ambrosius Salicetus prapositus et cancelloris" in 1512 owned fields in Sindelfingen and had on January 134, 1522 patronage over the parishes of Dagersheim and Darmsheim (as Chancellor of the University {Hess}). Due to the outbreak of the reformation, he fled to Rottenburg where he died at age 80 on June 10, 1561. He used the Ram coat of Arms as seal (Refs. © extensive). A third son may well have been Balthasar Widmann who entered Heidelberg on Dec. 21, 1478 as "de Pforzheim", B.A., Nov. 4, 1480 (ref.).

Of the three daughters, Genoveva was married to the Wurttemberg Chancellor Gregor Lamparter (died in 1523). This person allowed the Widmann's coat of arms to adorn a vaulted section of the cloister of the Hospital Church of Stuttgart. (ref.). The daughter Maria had the Chancellor of Baden, Jacob Kirser (Kurser) as a spouse and Kordula (married) Konrad Gremp, citizen of Vaihingen/Eng. Kordula who died in 1551 on April 24, 1516 donated 100 Guilden for the St. Anna Alter in the Cloister of Maulbronn.

However, after this digression, we turn back to Johannes Widmann © Mochinger. This individual was called upon to be a professor at Tubingen and he purchases a piece of land in Muntz alley next to the Blaubeurener nursing home and for 47 Gulden and 1 Pfund bought there a house in which he lived. Today, this house is number 9 which was destroyed by fire on Christnacht 1649 while, number 7, the former Blaubeurener nursing home was named (Refs.) number 7 as Widmann's house. In the year 1498 on the 6th of March, Widmann purchased his house from his brother©in©law, Dr. Jacob Krutlin von Dagerloch, also named Jacob Tagerlocher for 800 guilden (about this housepurchase, see Haller Vol.II, pg. 496). This house "as the highly learned, our dear trusted medical doctor Johans Mochinger had bought", donated by Duke Ulrich on Oct. 19 1507, to his Chancellor, Lamparter. On the 16th of Oct. 1491 Widmann was named for 1 year as Court Physician of the family of the count with 100 guilden sold, court clothing and 1/4 measure of oats for 1 horse and with headquarters in Tubingen In the same year, on Dec. 20th he puts his name in the names of the medical faculty under the second rule which Count Eberhard had given to the college.

The second appointment as medical doctor came on September 29 1493 as Count Eberhard the Bearded's spouse and young count Ulrich decreed that he be Court physician in TÀG Àbingen It read “for life and not longer” and for the year received 150 gulden, half on St. George’s day and the other half on St. Michael’s Day (1506 © 1512) the payment day was Christmas and John the Baptist Day, and further (payment), 10 measures of Rye, 10 measures of Wheat, 10 measures of hay of Tubinger measure, in his house to answer, he and his table servant to court, and if drowsy with sleep (recieved a loaf of bread?)(und ein Brot), and for his person, the court clothes.

"He shall wait...and if my merciful gentleman is needed outside of Tubingen, one will send a good horse for him and also for his servant and will cover his ministration expenses so that he suffers no loss. Thereupon shall he make an examination for the particular illness throughout the entire area of Wurttemberg alone, that he in an emergency and in the reward where it is due and has come time, will provide according to the appointment. He shall also deal with the University in behalf of Count Eberhard, that it to him, when he is about Court business, not settle on his business. He shall not be permitted to lay about in fields or when pestilence takes hold and reigns, for the court experiences the same."

TWO DOCTORS...WIDMANN [6 pages above yet to be translated] (End)

Many of those among present living family members wish for surprises for to experience such is to feel closer to this clan of the doctors to which they belong and to wrap themselves in the common bonds, because numerous Widmanns live in Dagersheim and in Maichingen as well as in Heimsheim and one Heimsheimer possesses a mangled seal that through our first interpretations and illustrations could be identified as the coat of arms of the springing ram. Your renowned clan members have remained strangers to you until now. With the profusion of material publicized in this century, the prospects of and new realizations about both doctors Johann Widmann may be quite modest.

An earlier researcher of the merchandise, Th. Schon, endeavored to put both Widmanns under one hat so we are happy today and each can put on his own hat. That we were successful in winding the reconciling bonds of family and community about them again wraps up proof that the poorly respected Genealogy and Heraldic sources turned out to be an indispensable source of knowledge and these have spoken the conclusive word when our work was in jeopardy. Even so, however, the last word has yet to be spoken.

In summary, one is astonished over the swift ascension of the clan to high spiritual and worldly dignities and offices. I have only to mention Konrad Widmann of Dagersheim who entered Heidelberg in 1421/22 and by 1442 was chaplain of Count Ludwig Von Wittemberg with fine prospect for gold and goods, who already owned a subsidized house in Stuttgart, could donate a chapel and be appointed choir master of the diocese of Sindlefingen in 1454, considerably above the ordinary because he was unlike all other choir masters before and after him, he did not come from the low aristocracy but came from the pesantries, his considerable connections with the Wurttemberg Counts and the high clergy notwithstanding.

Though the house of the Count stood in close connection to the Diosces of Sindlefingen, yet already it had been put about that the gentlemen's choir had 2 bastards from the House of Wittemberg as Provosts, namely the 16th Provost, Ulrich von Widmann who died March 9, 1348, illegitimate son of Count Eberhard the illustrious who 6 years before his death, left the Widemhof as an inherited fief to Mangolt, the mayor of Dagersheim; then the 19th Provost, Ulrich Witemberger (from 1420 to 1425) whose fraternal parentage is still controversial.

Furthermore, this gentlemen's choir foundation became the original basis for the University of Tubingen in its period of great blossoming;(it was) to have begun by the Pope's permission on the 11th of May 1476 but Count Eberhard had to be called in when the opening was postponed, starting the 13th of November of the same year, according to the Foundation of the University as (choir) Provost Johannes Degen became first Chancellor, the Choir master Johannes Nanclerus was first Rector and the plurality of the choir members became the first professors of the new university. It is only coincidence that already in 1477/78 Mangold permits the entry be made mentioning him as Canon and as Mangold Widmann became rector in 1483. Impressive also is the marriage of the children of both doctors to noble houses.

According to these considerations, one cannot fight back the suspicion that the bastard derivation had a hand directly or indirectly in what this Widmann Clan is often about © be it of the Wurttemberg or of a different noble house © it is as if they were inmates of a worldly gentlemen's choir association whose limbs no monkish rules could bind. It became their worldly outlook that they could possess their own fortunes, their own houses and they recognized their obligations only in terms that they, themselves, were willing to accept.

Examples of the superficial respect of the Zolibats in this age are not rare. We have, moreover, in the Gentlemen's choir foundation of St. Martin an example of it. Furthermore, I recall of our Widmanns that there is similarly named but distant (related) family from the Halle area from whom emerged the composer Erasmus Widmann, 1572©1634, whose father and grandfather were born to concubines (ref.). Further support for the theory regarding bastard derivation is that Mangold Widmann, the writer of 1458, appeared as a neighbor to the gentlemen of Dagersheim (refs.). Since the gentlemen of Dagersheim were related by marriage with the Welling family and through the latter could conceive of the bastard derivation of the of the noble house of Wurttemberg, one could also believe the same of the Widmanns of Dagersheim.

(after the mid part of the Culture Office of the City of Stuttgart.) END


Walther Pfeilsticker Increased printing of Sudhoffs archive 41, volume 3S

The work was in its essentials ready before March 1951.

A very much truncated lecture about both doctors was presented with first time photographs of the glass panels was made by the author on the two at the manor at Symaringen before the Company for the History of Medicine on the 28th of September 1954. Science and technology preserve.

Appeared in the Number 9 to 12 of 1958 of Our Home Pages, however without sources.

This Special Printing is suggested by the Home History Association for Beautiful Books and the District together with the Club for Families and Heraldry in Wurttemberg and Baden e.V. Stuttgart © O. Heinrich © Baumann © Strasse 31 Wilhelm Schlecht'ache Bookprintery Publisher of the Boblinger Messenger

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