The records I have thin out abit in the mid 1800's so are far from complete to find your William and John.
I note from a previous message that you have William Gattenby, born 31-Dec-1875 in England. If you know this to be correct I would suggest you obtain a birth cerificate for William by applying via this address:http://www.familyrecords.gov.uk/gro.htm
The certificate will have details of his father and mother so will provide more clues as where to look. Please keep me informed as to any results.